tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post5847627076264732636..comments2023-08-17T08:52:02.193-07:00Comments on Through The Tunnel: Life After PostPartum Depression: Is Post-Partum Depression a Cop-out?Estherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16205040884913365466noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-13168488941906126922017-01-28T16:03:51.629-08:002017-01-28T16:03:51.629-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09051443524013587505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-48944637451055198282013-02-10T20:36:15.870-08:002013-02-10T20:36:15.870-08:00Esther, I'm going to pick up the gauntlet and ...Esther, I'm going to pick up the gauntlet and write a guestblog. I'll send it to you privately and you can use it however you see fit. I have to admit to having more sympathy for Andrea Yates after your experience than before, but I didn't need your journey to give me compassion for her. I'm not sure being required to live with what she's done is easier than the death penalty. The inner torment felt by someone with such a depth of depression must be so hard to live with. I'm thankful for the courage shown by each of you responding from your place of empathy. Sharonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00728711813453080377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-11609403441143823562013-02-10T10:26:47.920-08:002013-02-10T10:26:47.920-08:00Wow. the book Are You There Alone? is a gr8 resear...Wow. the book Are You There Alone? is a gr8 research based book about Andrea Yates..<br />I'm amazed at this whole thing. Andrea Yates was psychotic and off her medications. KathyMorellihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11964694639815237665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-63750232238753739242012-02-16T05:14:31.698-08:002012-02-16T05:14:31.698-08:00Note: Being found not guilty by reason of mental d...Note: Being found not guilty by reason of mental defect does not mean that the defendant goes home. It means that they are held in a mental facility, often for longer than they would have been in jail. <br /><br />I can't say I have any personal experience with PPMD, but the stigma seems the same for any illness that doesn't cause hair loss or bleeding-If they can't see it, it doesn't exist. Sadly and unfortunately, people respond to mental illness with the suggestion that "Well, have you just tried not feeling that way?" To which politeness dictates that I should bite back the correct response, which is a sarcastic "Why no, how could I have not thought of that in the first place." <br /><br />I really wish I could believe that all humans are intelligent and empathic creatures, but I can't. Until they are, stay strong and keep up the good work! <br /><br />~CarlieC.B. Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16191489230162899201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-21776377535322884572012-01-17T22:11:34.577-08:002012-01-17T22:11:34.577-08:00Thanks for the great post, it is nice that there a...Thanks for the great post, it is nice that there are fellow survivors who can so eloquently say what some of us wish we could say. I think I would have stuck my foot in my mouth too many times. Tara's blog post was filled with so much false information and her attitude about any of the good information she was given just made me madder then hell. <br />AliciaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-16158586022689474252012-01-11T14:48:30.393-08:002012-01-11T14:48:30.393-08:00Esther,
Thanks so much for writing this. It is ...Esther,<br /><br /><br />Thanks so much for writing this. It is completely blasphemous to me that people will be so ill educated and write about what they don't know. I had PPD that almost wrecked me, and Praise God I had a family who was walking that dark road right along side me. My daughter's name is Esther too. :) <br /><br />May you be greatly blessed for the wisdom and encouragement you are giving those who read your blog.<br /><br />VanessaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-76245996113048805222012-01-10T14:34:22.527-08:002012-01-10T14:34:22.527-08:00Thank-you.
I know what it's like to want to k...Thank-you.<br /><br />I know what it's like to want to kill your child (I haven't). It sucks. It's scary as hell and a nasty internal fight. I don't know about the US but in Canada if the Ministry of Child and Family Development finds out they show up at your door (and in my case threaten Voluntary Child Removal, sounds really voluntary doesn't it?). It does not make dealing with PPP any easier. Luckily this was my second child (they did not find out on the first) and I had plans in place for everything. Still it took 4 months to get them out of my life. It's no wonder we hid our illness. I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing for help now that my youngest is more than a year and I don't qualify for help but life goes on regardless. And maybe today I will get out of bed.Pixhttp://www.codingpx.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-52368353436165358982012-01-08T17:39:14.351-08:002012-01-08T17:39:14.351-08:00This is such a well-written response to the misinf...This is such a well-written response to the misinformed and, frankly, offensive blog. I'm glad there are so many voices in the blogging community to help educate others. Thank you for this post.<br /><br />I don't have a postpartum-related blog, but I did found The Online PPMD Support Group website (http://www.ppdsupportpage.com) which has a rather large community of fellow heroines in the PPMD fight via our posting boards, chats, and e-group. It's another good resource for support for those who need it.Tonya Rosenberghttp://www.ppdsupportpage.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-42987008718941882682012-01-07T15:05:46.347-08:002012-01-07T15:05:46.347-08:00Oh my. This is exactly why we need to talk about t...Oh my. This is exactly why we need to talk about this more - so that people understand and so that it won't be okay to say that sort of thing anymore.Robin | Farewell, Strangerhttp://farewellstranger.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-73194986815684266472012-01-07T06:47:31.338-08:002012-01-07T06:47:31.338-08:00I would love to read this article, but reading jus...I would love to read this article, but reading just the first part started to trigger me, so I will say, thank you for writing it and maybe some day I will be strong enough to read it. Personally, I think having to live with the knowledge that you killed your child would be worse than any death penalty. Connecting with that reality would be so so so horrible.signingcharityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02277911657754648853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-60122502480604600942012-01-06T20:15:07.651-08:002012-01-06T20:15:07.651-08:00Further more in the UK we have a law (the infantic...Further more in the UK we have a law (the infanticide act) that protects women in the postpartum period because we recognise that postpartum mood disorders can make women act dangerously out of character beyond their control. These woman are protected and treated so they can become well again. Women who are so ill that the unthinkable happens need our compassion and help, not ignorant judgement. It is not impossible to understand academically the theory of psychosis and what would make a woman kill her child, so I find these kind of misinformed public opinions so frustrating and frankly distasteful. Yet until you have first hand experience of psychosis you can't fathom in your heart or mind the horror of losing yourself to a mental illness that can make you say, do and think unimaginable things. <br /><br />Postpartum Psychosis can strike ANY mother regardless of whether she's had a history of metal illness or not, regardless of intelligence, social circumstances, wealth or personality type. So when any mother hears of a case of infanticide in the media where a woman has been found to be mentally ill with a postpartum psychosis she should reserve judgement and be saying instead "there but by the grace of God go I" and thank God or her lucky stars or her genetics or whatever she has faith in that it wasn't her in the dock and her family enduring such a trauma.<br /><br />It is worth noting that any mother who because of a postpartum mental illness, which is nearly always temporary ie. not chronic, has lost a child by her own hand, will be punished enough by the trauma, pain and guilt she will have to live with for the rest of her life regardless of where she resides, in prison, a secure psychiatric unit or with her family in her own home. Just because she was ill and psychotic in the postpartum period does not mean she won't one day be made well again and back to normal. In that normality she will more than likely have vivid traumatic memories of that psychosis coupled with her grief for her child. Isn't that punishment enough? Fate dealt her a raw deal, robbed her of motherhood. We shouldn't be condemning her further. So a cop-out as you say .... not unless a living hell is considered a light sentence, no!<br /><br />For much needed further research read "Understanding Postpartum Psychosis: a temporary madness" by Twomey. You will find a comprehensive study on infanticide in her book and personal stories of the hell that is postpartum psychosis.HopeafterPPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-60501685632332261452012-01-06T20:12:24.615-08:002012-01-06T20:12:24.615-08:00The ignorant misinformed original tweet has angere...The ignorant misinformed original tweet has angered me greatly so thank you for combating the stigma Esther with your post. To the previous comment from Lisa, thank you, you have given a very accurate concise answer that I wholeheartedly agree with.<br /><br />Here's my thoughts I feel compelled to share:<br /><br />The key to understanding how a woman could kill her own child in the postpartum period is to stop calling it depression and learn what it means for someone to be psychotic. These women who killed their children had postpartum psychosis which is NOT postpartum depression. They are not one and the same thing. One is a psychiatric emergency and a leading cause of maternal death. 1 in 500 women who deliver a baby will develop postpartum psychosis, only 4% of these women will commit infanticide. Contrary to what @GAModernMom wrote with the statement "2 out of 1000s of cases" it is rare for a mother to kill her baby.<br /><br />Psychosis is when someone literally "loses their mind" or more accurately loses touch with reality. It is in this state of "insanity" that a tiny percentage of mothers with PP feel they may have no other choice but to kill their child. If those women are not quickly and adequately given treatment that sadly can be the outcome. Yet the delusions that lead a woman to commit such an inconceivable act are usually such that the very act of killing her child or children is the greatest form of protection she can give them. I have not read one story of infanticide yet (with a mother suffering psychosis) that didn't have such an element in it. There is a common misconception that mothers kill their children because they are depressed and have simply had enough. It's a urban myth born out of ignorance. A mentally ill mother would more than likely harm only herself and her thoughts would be consumed with protecting her children.HopeafterPPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-47527596824417273112012-01-06T19:15:22.443-08:002012-01-06T19:15:22.443-08:00I have not experienced any sort of post-partum moo...I have not experienced any sort of post-partum mood disorder, nor has anyone I've known (I'm young -- not a lot of mom-friends yet!).<br /><br />Any you know what? Hey, Tara, you're wrong.<br /><br />Mental health issues are just as real and just as dangerous and physical health issues. There are real diagnostic criteria that patients must meet in order to receive a diagnosis for any sort of mental health issue, the same as if they were being diagnosed with cancer. "Depression" doesn't just mean "feeling kind of sad"; "psychosis" is a clearly defined mental state that does not just mean "a little loopy."<br /><br />To even qualify for the lowest level of psychosis (Brief Psychotic Disorder), one would have to have either delusions, hallucinations, disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence), or grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior -- and none of these symptoms can be better explained by drug reactions.<br /><br />Defense lawyers cannot diagnose mental illness, nor can patients themselves. Doctors with specialized training (which you yourself admit you lack) diagnose these disorders.<br /><br />A woman who is having delusions or hallucinations, who is unable to get out of bed (not just tired and mopey, but in such a stupor that moving is physically impossible), or who is incoherent in speech and thought is *not* using her illness as a "cop-out." She is, instead, fighting for her life, and usually fighting against every scary impulse her brain is churning out. Following the scary impulses -- such as harming her children -- happens only when she can fight no longer. <br /><br />You know what helps women fight, or even get rid of the scary impulses altogether? Getting medical help. You know what keeps women from getting medical help? Attitudes like yours. These women need SUPPORT and HELP, not condemnation. They are fighting for their lives.Lisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-75045391832511806682012-01-06T16:07:49.349-08:002012-01-06T16:07:49.349-08:00Thank you so much, Esther for this post. I must ad...Thank you so much, Esther for this post. I must admit that before I had my daughter a year ago and was diagnosed with PPD/PPA, I found it hard to believe that a mother could think harmful thoughts about their child. But, I have and they are scary And people like you and Katherine are the reasons I got help. So, thank you, for this post and for all your posts.<br />-LauraLaura (@RunningDoyle)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-68218204407988420812012-01-06T10:59:09.594-08:002012-01-06T10:59:09.594-08:00I was going to write a response post, but now I se...I was going to write a response post, but now I see there's no need. You did it for me! Way to go mama! <br /><br />And don't bother responding to people who don't get it or understand anything about mental illness and who don't want to understand or have an open mind. It isn't worth your time.Katherine @ Postpartum Progresshttp://postpartumprogress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-61715966364175131942012-01-06T09:19:04.574-08:002012-01-06T09:19:04.574-08:00Amazing. Simply amazing. Until someone has lived t...Amazing. Simply amazing. Until someone has lived through PPD, they have no idea what it's like. Being a new mom is hard enough, but when your own body starts revolting against you it's horrible. Not knowing if you're going to make it through the day, and the only thing keeping you alive is the precious bundle in your arms.. you know, the one that keeps screaming and puking and pooping?Fluffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07595199726560973497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-9965015872868829602012-01-06T00:12:26.088-08:002012-01-06T00:12:26.088-08:00OH MY GAWD!
This is AWESOME, your post, the incred...OH MY GAWD!<br />This is AWESOME, your post, the incredible amount of research you did, your strong argumentation and the well spoken comment you gave that woman.<br />Just AWESOME Esther! I am standing up, and saluting you, right now, lots of love.Mirjamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04961967855089649890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-79994351684980427502012-01-05T20:00:24.859-08:002012-01-05T20:00:24.859-08:00Thank you too! I was about to add you to my blogro...Thank you too! I was about to add you to my blogroll until I realized I already had you. Can we say "Mommy brain"? LOL<br /><br />Oh wait, there I go rationalizing and using a cop-out again. Oops!<br /><br />What I would absolutely LOVE to show Tara and those who are agreeing with her is a piece written by someone who has NOT experienced a PPMD themselves but who can tell her "Hey, you're wrong.". I'll have to do some googling.<br /><br />Maybe it's time to see if my mom and my husband will do some guestblogging...Estherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16205040884913365466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-88605073404274769162012-01-05T19:49:38.855-08:002012-01-05T19:49:38.855-08:00Thanks, Esther, for speaking up! We need more mom...Thanks, Esther, for speaking up! We need more moms like you on the Combat Stigma & Ignorance Team! Just added you to my PPD blogroll, by the way. What a way to start off the new year. It may be a new year, but unfortunately, this type of attitude and stubborn resistance to become knowledgeable (and you're right, I have a feeling she won't change her position on this until she's experienced a postpartum mood disorder herself in order to develop some empathy) just shows we still have a long way to go to raise awareness!Ivy Shih Leunghttp://ivysppdblog.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-36847209405902152242012-01-05T16:50:06.436-08:002012-01-05T16:50:06.436-08:00Considering that you, on twitter, tried to say tha...Considering that you, on twitter, tried to say that women with PPMD are the same as rapists and child molestors, I have a difficult time giving credence to anything you say.<br /><br />Every point I would try to make, Lauren Hale and Katherine Stone have already tried to make, and you flat out ignore them. Not only are your arguments illogical and your language inflammatory, trivializing, and vilifying to those who suffer from PPMD, it would seem that you either failed to actually do much research or when you did your research you picked and chose what you quoted in your blog. This also makes it difficult to take you seriously.<br /><br />You can not guarantee that Andrea Yates would have received the death penalty had she not had a PPMD. There are, in fact, people convicted of murder who receive a life sentence, the same sentence Andrea Yates received. That's not even getting in to the issue of how many of those convicted of murder are later exonerated after a wrongful conviction, because this is not a blog about the death penalty or the fact that I do not support it.<br /><br />Another example of your factual inaccuracies is that you continue to state that Andrea Yates had PPD. She did not. She was diagnosed with PostPartum Psychosis. They are two different diagnoses/conditions. In fact, I respectfully request that you go back through your blog and correct it to reflect this fact, acknowledge on your blog AND twitter that you were wrong, and apologize for it. In fact, I would like for you to go through and correct ALL of the inaccuracies in your blog, itemizing and acknowledging them and apologizing for them.<br /><br />Nothing makes killing someone okay (even when it's the state ordering the killing...). Nobody is saying that killing is a good thing (except for you and the other death penalty advocates). What is being said is that conditions which mean that someone loses control over their actions must be taken into consideration during a trial.<br /><br />I know that it's hard to understand PPMD when one has not experienced it. I used to feel the exact same way as you before I experienced PPD. It's amazing though, how much it changes one's perspective to walk a mile in the shoes one is so loudly decrying.<br /><br />Like I said on your blog, I'm not trying to change your mind. You're so firmly rooted in your blind ignorance and self-righteous judgmental pomposity that the only thing that stands a CHANCE of changing your viewpoint is to personally first-hand go through it yourself. What I seek to do is to combat the inaccuracies you are spreading which could cause unknowing innocent people to jump to the same false conclusions you have. What I would like to see you do is stop speaking as though women with a PPMD are just using it as an excuse.Estherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16205040884913365466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-73052744633776080682012-01-05T16:04:00.948-08:002012-01-05T16:04:00.948-08:00OK let me start by saying this. If a woman killed ...OK let me start by saying this. If a woman killed her child and there was no claim of PPD, she would get fried. Or at least she should be. Andrea Yates was a TX resident, a state which the death penalty is used. If she had not of used PPD as her excuse for her murders, she'd be on death row. Right where she should be. If Jane Doe killed her 5 kids she would go to jail and spend the rest of her life in prison, or she would get the death penalty.<br /><br />Depressed or not, there is no rationalization here.<br /><br />Half of America has depression issues, so does that mean they should be about to kill people and it be ok? <br /><br />You're trying to rationalize because you have suffered with PPD. When really there is no excuse in the world.<br /><br />I never said a woman with PPD had done anything wrong. I understand it is a medical condition. With that said, it's not an excuse for murder.<br /><br />PPD or not, it's murder when you kill your child and each person should be punished equally.Tarahttp://www.taradanandclan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6057245090576801598.post-32657437135842154452012-01-05T15:05:52.252-08:002012-01-05T15:05:52.252-08:00Esther, thank you so much for this post. I contin...Esther, thank you so much for this post. I continue to be amazed at the stimga attached to PPMDs. I have made it a point now to talk about it as much as I can with people IRL to remove the shame. I suffered from PPD & PPA, but I am surviving. I want other women to know they are not alone & it will get better.Jennyhttps://twitter.com/#!/jenrenpodynoreply@blogger.com